I dont get the unfair criticism

[Homesick]

To be honest, I never understood the idea that Let Your Dim Light Shine was a "commercial" album to begin with. In my mind, no single track on the album (apart from Misery, I guess) "stands out" on its own, but listening to the entire record from start to finish makes LYDLS greater than the sum of its parts. I just can't see the commercial aspect of it.

[CrazyLittleWoman]

I think maybe a lot of the backlash against obscure bands that become famous (not just SA) is fueled by the underlying philosophy of the commentator/fan. It's sometimes a matter of whether someone is a populist or an elitist.

So, maybe how someone reacts to having his/her favorite obscure band become wildly famous is influenced by which camp he/she falls into. Elitists will probably hate it and populists will probably love it.

Unmarketable by Anne Elizabeth Moore (former co-editor of Punk Planet) contains an excellent discussion of the concept of selling out. She describes a workshop she held in which she got all but one of the artists, musicians, writers, and filmmakers in attendance to sell out for the grand price of a large candy bar. Oddly enough, the one "suit" (lawyer by day, artist by night) at the workshop was the only artist who refused to sell out. The point of the workshop was to illustrate how slippery -- and unprofitable -- selling out can be. The whole book is interesting, enlightening, and guaranteed to make the reader positively paranoid.

[Homesick]

So all it took for the artists to sell out was some candy from a stranger? I can only imagine the parallels some people will be drawing.

[jasonC]

Yeah, songs like To My Own Devices, Eyes Of A Child and I Did My Best don't really strike me as being commercial either. They strike me as being good, honest heartfelt rock songs.

[Yaz McBoo]

Yeah, but they don't rock as hard as the 80s albums do. Dim Light and Candy lack some of the desperation and rawness of the earlier stuff, and that's what really turned the older fans off. We can go on and on, but all things "selling out" and winona aside, the lyrics and music took a new direction in the 1990s, and it just wasn't to the liking of those who grew up with the punkish, almost metal-ish songs of Hang Time and MTBB. That's all it really comes down to.

[Closer]

The main reason for LYDLS to be called a commercial album is the sound... Butch Vig can make anything have a commercial sound, it's what he's famous for. And also, there are a couple of songs on there that have that pop vibe that I'm sure some of the older fans didn't appreciate.

[CrazyLittleWoman]

So all it took for the artists to sell out was some candy from a stranger? I can only imagine the parallels some people will be drawing.

Oops! That implication was unintentional. (Very funny, Homesick! )

I only meant to recommend a good book that sheds some light on the larger issues.

[philipgar]

First, I think this whole argument is rather silly. I don't think there exists a group of four guys scraping by a living in a rock band who wouldn't sell out to some extent. Maybe with the exception of bands like the replacements in their early days, but it wasn't so much that they wouldn't sell out, but that they'd get drunk and fuck things up for themselves so they wouldn't be able to sell out. People talk about selling out like it's a bad thing, but a band wants to sell albums, they want to sell tickets etc. Does that influence their sound? Of course it does... but to what extent?

A band doesn't play solely for themselves, they want to be heard, they want to be appreciated, it's part of human nature. I doubt many serious bands play music as a career solely for themselves. It just doesn't work out. When SA became huge, I'm sure the guys were overwhelmed. Almost overnight you go from sleeping in the back seat of the tour van next to your bandmate who hasn't showered in 3 days (but it smells like a month), to having a penthouse apartment or whatever. Money plays weird games with peoples heads. And it changes what the band does.

I've heard from Dave that part of the reason they stopped playing old songs and the medleys was that the fans didn't appreciate it. I imagine doing that stuff just isn't as much fun if the crowd isn't into it. Part of playing music is the interaction between the performer and the crowd. If it's selling out to appreciate that interaction, and play to it, so be it. Additionally, when they became huge immediately everyone wants to be your friend. You have no idea who to trust or what not, your comfort level with "normal" people is greatly reduced as you suspect they might have an angle, and are trying to get something from you. All it takes is a few bad experiences to make someone jaded.

And their music changed with success too. They lyrics change... well isn't that expected? Their lives changed, it would be disingenuous not to change what your music is about when your life changes so drastically. Also they now had producers and record label guys pushing changes on them. Did they necessarily find the changes bad? It's really hard to say, but they had likely grown used to years of little input from the suits, were they going to say no to them now that they were "appreciated"? I don't know what they thought, but they did what they did, and on their terms I believe.

The same happened more recently after CFAS, and the disaster tour that was. The band found their fanbase shrinking remarkably, and refocussed both their live shows and their new material. The fans were generally older now, many loved all of SA's material, so older songs were brought back. They once again got the reaction to the songs they meant for them to have, and felt the energy the fans had for them. There's a reason Cartoon is played at every show. They also brought Runaway Train back into their set. They had gotten burned out on it, but realized it was still a good song, and at the end of the day, they enjoyed it, enjoyed the crowds reaction or whatever. And their new material, don't tell me they haven't geared it toward this new fan base. It completely is, they know what people want, and it's a mix of the edgy punk rock songs that SA was founded on, as well as the slower songs they came to love as the band matured.

sorry, I suppose i've been rambling here, but I hope this made some sense.

Phil

[CULater]

Y'know it all comes down to when you became a fan and how deeply you connected with the band. I know for me whenever they came around it was like some old friends coming around --it was smaller venues, more intimate crowd interaction and it felt comfortable. That's how it feels now, as well. If you became a fan from listening to Runaway Train....that's great, too. Back in the mid-90's you'd have enjoyed going to see them in the big arenas because that's how you got to know them, so to speak. But anyone who grew with them from the First Ave, smaller club days...it had a bittersweet feel maybe. You gotta love to see the band do well and have great success, but it's only natural to be sitting in a sold-out arena setting thinking "Man I miss standing right up against the stage!"

I never looked at it as a "sell out" I thought it was about time the rest of the world stood up and took notice of these talented group of guys. I just missed what the smaller venue popularity brought to the table.

I think what they've accomplished is quite amazing actually. They have such a loyal fanbase who really get them. For what it's worth....I've been a fan since the late 80's and I actually quite like CFAS. I love 'em all. Every CD brings a little SA-something.

[EL DANGEROSO]

thats so kind of you yaz mcboo to take someone mentally challenged to concerts. not everyone can be soul asylum fans or stand to see dave mature as a singer/songwriter and i wouldnt want everyone to like soul asylum. but those of us who do love and appreciate there songs know nobody does it better. there better as the underdog band anyway.and dan picked THE GAME as one of his 3 favorite songs so unlike some would have you believe they do like CFAS and to me there last 6 cds are perfection so i know the new one will fit right along with the rest